Bush Vs Kerry

[provo]

I dont know if i spelled karry right......
First of all I want to know what do all of you think about George Bush...I think that he is the worst president of all time...I am only 14 and I will say all of this...he is braking one of the commandments by taking freedom of speech from everyone....Everything that is going on with Howard Stern and the FCC all started with bush....He is having religion getting in the way of him being president and that is illegal.........The only reason we are still in Iraq is because he is trying to get oil and he is trying to make him look like the good guy for rebuilding of everything.....I think that Bush is a *Bleep*Bleep*Bleep*Bleep and an A$$hole......who is with me on this...please some comments on your thoughts..oh yeah and if he hadn't stopped the Stem-Cell Research i"m sure a lot of people with cancer would still be alive today....

[PitBoss]

Originally posted by provo
he is braking one of the commandments by taking freedom of speech from everyone....Everything that is going on with Howard Stern and the FCC all started with bush....


I do believe that the FCC has its own governing powers and does not rely solely on President Bush's concept of appropriate content.
Other than your erroneous 'opinion', try finding some more concrete evidence that Bush is 'solely' responsible for breaking the freedom of speech amendment. BTW I don't remember any of the amendments and articles of the Bill of Rights being 'commandments', you may want to revisit or review your history lessons and know the difference between the American Constitution and the 'Commandments' set forth in the Christian Bible.



He is having religion getting in the way of him being president and that is illegal.........


A US President having any personal religious beliefs and/or affiliations are not illegal. And, even if a bill is introduced that has religious tones or inspiration, it still must go before Congress and the Senate for approval. If it becomes law, then the religious undertones of the bill were agreed and voted on by the representatives that you (in your case, your parents) voted into office.



The only reason we are still in Iraq is because he is trying to get oil and he is trying to make him look like the good guy for rebuilding of everything.....


I will definitely call BULL**** on this one. Although, I respect your opinion and your RIGHT to have one (which is what this war is all about, your FREEDOM to have RIGHTS and opinions and extending those freedoms and rights to those who are denied such things), I will definitely disagree with you. As far as oil goes, the primary oil supplies for the entire world exist in other areas, controlled by other governments. The next time you consider the 'reasons' for this war, take some time to look through your history books and remember how many soldiers, civilians and statesmen have sacrificed their lives for you to be free to speak your mind.



I think that Bush is a *Bleep*Bleep*Bleep*Bleep and an A$$hole......who is with me on this...please some comments on your thoughts..oh yeah and if he hadn't stopped the Stem-Cell Research i"m sure a lot of people with cancer would still be alive today.... [/B]



I'm decidedly not 'with you' on this one, especially the derrogatory remarks... I could personally start spouting obscenities regarding Kerry and 'wishy-washy' politics.. but I personally believe that only through presentation of facts, intelligent debate will any of my opinions be taken seriously.

Even at 14, you can get involved, which is a good thing to do, but do it knowing the full measure of the situation, both current and future ramifications and do it with respect (your voice will more likely be heard without the 'defensive' reaction).

I applaud your interest in the situation at your age and respect your willingness to care for more than just video games and girls ;).

Keep the passion going, stay informed and when you're 18, get out and vote...

[zayelskeeper]

Ive been in politics all my life and im only 20...im the Youngest person to ever be a selectman for any state in the union and i didnt get here by spouting off at the mouth...and i feel that who i vote for is my business and thats the way it should stay for everyone...we all have our likes and dislikes...Im Republican Fiscally..and Democrat on other affairs..i dont want my tax money going to someone who will use it wrongly (in a manner not to better themselves)...thats the republican side of me..but on the other hand what Democrats believe is right in my OPINION on matters of this great nation which ive been a citizen of since i was 4...we all need the same rules..hell let the guy marry the goat...the divorce will be a reall Bahhhh...again this is MY OPINION..so i expect no dirogitory remarks from some smart ass that thinks they know more about being an american..its easy to be born american..but i had to work at just like my family did..

[Ian]

Provo, I dont have time for a full out reply, but basically you need to learn a thing or two about politics before you post your crack driven posts.

he is braking one of the commandments by taking freedom of speech from everyone
I dont believe I ever saw that on the list of commandments Moses brought from Mount Sinai.

The only reason we are still in Iraq is because he is trying to get oil
OK, you need to start getting your FACTS from real sources, and not from the crap on Comedy Central, MTV, or Nickelodeon.
Venezuela has more oil than Iraq, why arent we there bombing them? Alaska is thought to have more oil than anywhere else in the world, why arent we there drilling? There isnt enough oil is Iraq to even make up for the billions spent in the war and rebuilding, and if I remember right the Iraqi's still own the oil reserves.

Everything that is going on with Howard Stern and the FCC all started with bush....
Nope, pretty sure it started with Janet Jacksons Nipple, a lot of complaints, and the FCC finally cracking down on the rules they already had in place.

I think that Bush is a *Bleep*Bleep*Bleep*Bleep and an A$$hole......who is with me on this...
Thats the way to win friends. Obviously you know nothing about politics, George Bush, or John Kerry. IMO, John Kerry would be the worst thing we could do to our country right now. He would weaken the military, take enemies and try to make them "friends", and the guy cant make up his mind on anything.

Please do at least some basic research before posting mindless derogatory posts.

IAN

[Ian]

The next time you consider the 'reasons' for this war, take some time to look through your history books and remember how many soldiers, civilians and statesmen have sacrificed their lives for you to be free to speak your mind.

I just want this to get more "screen time"



Something I agree with 100%, and if someone doesnt agree with it, then they are a Nazi Communist Liberal Facist Goat Farmer [;)]





IAN

[zayelskeeper]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The next time you consider the 'reasons' for this war, take some time to look through your history books and remember how many soldiers, civilians and statesmen have sacrificed their lives for you to be free to speak your mind.



This is true..but those people had no intentions to be Martyrs...they died because it was there JOB...we can all appreciate what they did for us but in the same respect we dont need to use what THEY did for US as a basis for a political war...and its kind of ironic that people ONLY bring up the "ALL AMERICAN" people that died for this nation...people in other countries of other religions died for this country...immigrants werent looked over when it came to DRAFT TIME...so when people bring up everyone that died for this country..lets not forgot people that didnt get the "spot light"

[provo]

ok everyone i'm sorry if i have said anything that you might think that i dont know anything about political subjects........this is just my opinion on this........I Don't want to get on anyone's bad side about this.........And yes the word commandment i should have put amendment....PitBoss you have a Great reason....I should have looked at my facts right.....For everyone else I am sorry if i have made you angry about this........

[PitBoss]

Originally posted by zayelskeeper

This is true..but those people had no intentions to be Martyrs...they died because it was there JOB...we can all appreciate what they did for us but in the same respect we dont need to use what THEY did for US as a basis for a political war...and its kind of ironic that people ONLY bring up the "ALL AMERICAN" people that died for this nation...people in other countries of other religions died for this country...immigrants werent looked over when it came to DRAFT TIME...so when people bring up everyone that died for this country..lets not forgot people that didnt get the "spot light"



Where did I mention anything regarding martyrs? I choose to respect all who have sacrificed and endured hardships for my chance at freedom, but I do not consider them 'martyrs'.

Where was I specific in my post as only regarding American soldiers, civilians and statesmen? Many heros of other nations have fallen for their belief in freedom, not just for American freedom or purposes.

I'm not going to sit here and be self centered and suggest that any of these people did this for 'just me'... although, I do think that they did it for their countries, or their personal beliefs and, maybe, for a few did it for other reasons (I'm not a mind reader and don't suggest that I know everything).

When I mentioned the soldiers, civilians and statesmen, I made NO specific remark regarding their nationality, race or creed. In my opinion, there is only one group of people within this country that can truly claim to be 'native' Americans. The majority of us have long histories of our families making a journey from other lands to live here as well.

Yes, it was their job, and although it pays and often comes with peril, the US service men and women are there because they VOLUNTEERED to enter the service. There was no draft enacted for this war (I know it has been used in the past, and realize that many were from other countries). When you come into this country, and CHOOSE to become a US citizen, you, therefore, become an American. You have the FREEDOM and the RIGHT to cherish your heritage and your ancestry. So, if FREEDOM is POLITICAL, so be it, I would willingly fight for it if this country called upon me to do so.

[PitBoss]

Originally posted by provo
ok everyone i'm sorry if i have said anything that you might think that i dont know anything about political subjects........this is just my opinion on this........I Don't want to get on anyone's bad side about this.........And yes the word commandment i should have put amendment....PitBoss you have a Great reason....I should have looked at my facts right.....For everyone else I am sorry if i have made you angry about this........

Provo,
By no means was I angry with you. You stated your feelings/opinions (although a little harsh here and there).

As I said in my initial response, I'm glad to see that some young people (worldwide) are taking notice of the things around them other than 'the fun of the moment'.

I was not trying to insult your intelligence or knowledge of the political subject, just be sure not to trust the media 100%. Do your own research, form your own opinions, and declare them peacefully and intelligently and you'll be heard.

[zayelskeeper]

My post had nothing to do with you Pitboss..i believe what you said was right...Most of this rant and rave was to "others"

Quote Ian:

"OK, you need to start getting your FACTS from real sources, and not from the crap on Comedy Central, MTV, or Nickelodeon."


Ya know the funny part is that THOSE NETWORKS are REACHING young adults...its doin what its supposed to do..one sided facts just like FOX news or any other show...they have an agenda just like everyone else..Politics is to drive ones cause and thats what all the "non fact stateing" networks are doing...its "THEIR" facts..

[Ian]

and its kind of ironic that people ONLY bring up the "ALL AMERICAN" people that died for this nation
I dont think anyone of us said anything about "all american".
I am 2nd Generation american, but I still have my heritage. My grandmother was a translator during WWII for the RAF.


This is true..but those people had no intentions to be Martyrs...they died because it was there JOB
Actuallly I doubt that during the Revolutionary War anyone died becuase it was their JOB. Sure, the soldiers in Iraq are there because they signed up for the service, but they knew what they were doing. No one was forced to go and sign up for the military.


Ya know the funny part is that THOSE NETWORKS are REACHING young adults...its doin what its supposed to do..
Yes, I realize that and thats why I suggested getting real sources.


so when people bring up everyone that died for this country..lets not forgot people that didnt get the "spot light"
I dont think anyone was overlooking that fact that immigrants fought in the wars, but I dont know how you justify saying that they didnt get the same "spotlight" as the full blooded Americans. Most educated Americans understand we arent the only ones that fight for freedom and that others loose their lives in doing so. But there is no way you can say any other country fights as hard as America for our freedom and the freedom of others.

IAN

[rogerwhippet]

Provo,
You're only 14? Excellent! I admire your courage to speak out and express yourself in this forum. I wish I had a fraction of your insight when I was your age. I for one ignored politics until well after finishing College. In a way life was much cleaner then, and I often consider just ignoring the broader world again and focusing on the immediate. It’s so infuriatingly stressful to watch the events of our time.

All of us here in the snake forums have a common ground....the love of reptiles. We get along great when talking within those boundaries. When we bring political issues into the light things start to get a little hot. I have very dear friends at the far opposite end of the political spectrum. We stay friends by talking very little about our political beliefs.

Nobody here can argue your right to your opinion. Express it loudly and often. You will learn and others will learn and grow with you.

As far as your question of Bush vs. Kerry. In my humble opinion a vote for Bush is the same as a vote for Kerry. If your concern is our invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq then it makes little difference if Bush or Kerry is president. As we continue to wage war in Afghanistan and Iraq, Kerry has voiced his support for finishing what was started so don’t be too surprised if we stay at war until you're old enough to drink. And for sure don't raise your voice if we invade more countries in the search for oil under his office.

In the next decade we will see the price of energy skyrocket as our (USA) uberlifestyle thirst for luxury outpaces the global energy production. We will invade and conquer to get oil. We will deceive and manipulate to get oil. We (our administration) will get oil at any cost. Eventually the people of the United States will make a shift but it will be too late. The world will hate us even more and the US will fall from superpower status.

Respectfully,
chris

[Ian]

Ok, provo, I have to apologize. Apparantly yours wasnt the most crack driven post on the forum (though quite scattered ;) )


The world will hate us even more and the US will fall from superpower status.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but most of the world doesnt give a rats ass about America. Just got off the phone with friends in Germany, and I asked them what they thought. They said they dont care about the war, and the only people throwing the giant fits are the minority, just like here.

As for your oil comments, I am glad you are as educated as Provo is on that subject. If we were going to invade Iraq for oil, wouldnt we have taken control of at least an oil field, or a pipeline, or even just put an American in control over there? If you still think this war is about oil, maybe its time to take your tin foil hat off and get some real facts.

In my humble opinion a vote for Bush is the same as a vote for Kerry
yes, because they both are out to get oil, right? Never mind the real issues, its all about oil.



IAN

[rogerwhippet]

I'd like very much to talk about issues other than war and oil, but when people like you and me are injured, maimed, or killed every day because of US initiated attacks...well there's not much else to do except try and stop further aggression.

Bottom line is we need oil and our current administration is after it. We (the US) is totally and completely dependent upon a huge daily supply of oil, specifically an incredible 20.4 MILLION barrels per day. Our own domestic daily production is in the decline (2003 figure is 7.9 MMBD). Without oil our economy would collapse and it seems we’ll do anything for oil including the illegal invasion of other sovereign nations. Without oil imports we have a one-day supply of oil reserves to feed on. Or daily domestic production is less than third of what we consume daily.

chris

Get some interesting oil facts here at our own Energy Information Administration government website:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/usa.html
some cut and past from above link:
"The United States consumed an average of about 20.0 million barrels per day of oil in 2003, up from 19.8 MMBD in 2002. Total 2004 petroleum demand is projected to grow by 420,000 barrels per day, or 2.1%, to an average 20.4 million barrels per day. According to the Oil and Gas Journal, the United States had 22.7 billion barrels of proved oil reserves as of January 1, 2004, eleventh highest in the world."

[lmw3905]

After going abroad, travled all over Europe. I got a new look at things from outside the US. I have to really say this when you see somthing on the news or read in a paper in the us they all have there agenda and like to blow things up to more than they. We probably already now this. I went to about every country talked to all kinds of people. I will say the worst thing I got about being an american was a French waiter in an Italian cafe was a real Di**. Other than that had a great time. Just don't let all the pics make you think the majority does.

[AbstractCypher]

most of the world doesnt give a rats ass about America

You we're 100% correct Ian. The little guys post wasn't the most crack driven...

Make sure you read these Provo. Make up your mind on your own, your on the right track bud.


maybe you don't read much... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1138009.stm)

here's another one for ya (http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0411-04.htm)

New York Times article... more? (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0308-01.htm)

...can't forget this one... (http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1087373157793&p=1012571727088)


Now if you can furnish references to back your CLAIM i'd love to read them.

Now about that tin hat and those facts

[zayelskeeper]

Originally posted by youngc2
provo you're an ass


EASY WITH THE NAME CALLING...that is your 1st post and it seems your gettin off to a very bad start...Provo is a kid and even he deserves some respect..now show it or get the hell out of here

[STHA4]

well said josh.

[Ian]

The little guys post wasn't the most crack driven...
You are right, you had not yet joined this thread.

Make sure you read these Provo. Make up your mind on your own, your on the right track bud.
Yes, because as you have pointed out, your way is the only way. Right?

War for oil, or war because al Qaeda and Iraq had ties?
http://netwmd.com/articles/article605.html

The memo contains 50 detailed bullets outlining Iraqi/al-Qaeda cooperation. Among the points laid out:
Numerous meetings between Iraqi high-level officials and al Qaeda (including bin Laden himself).
An agreement by Saddam to allow al-Qaeda operations as long as they left his regime alone (remember that Osama initially considered the Iraqi secular regime to be an enemy of Islam).
The Iraqi Intelligence Service trained bin Laden in bomb-making techniques.
Iraqi funding for meetings with al-Qaeda.
Meetings between Iraqi officials and the Taliban in both Pakistan and Afghanistan.
al-Qaeda set up a terrorist training camp in northern Iraq.
Iraq provided safe harbor, funding, weapons, and fake passports to al-Qaeda -- even after 9/11.
Involvement by countries like Jordan, Egypt, and Sudan in meetings between Iraqi representatives and al-Qaeda.


Hmm, sound smore like what Tom was saying at the BCF. I saw no mention of oil ANYWHERE.
http://www.netwmd.com/articles/article47.html
http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040628&s=editorial062804

if our strategic rationale for war has collapsed, our moral one has not. In the '90s, this magazine supported military intervention to prevent slaughter in Bosnia, Kosovo, and (unsuccessfully) Rwanda. And, in the process, we learned that stopping genocide brings unexpected rewards. Because the United States went to war twice in the Balkans, southeastern Europe is now largely at peace, increasingly democratic, and slowly integrating into Europe. By contrast, in Rwanda, where the United States stood by, genocide's aftershocks have helped plunge much of Central Africa into war, killing millions and destabilizing an entire region.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/274fwxli.asp its a two page article, but a great read.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/273ejlcp.asp
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/261tquma.asp

Its 4:40 am, I am too tired to get into this much more tonight.
As for my "sources" to my claims that most Europeans do not hate America, feel free to email me, and I will get you in contact with them. Unfortunatly, the news doesnt report when things dont happen, and rarely even report the pro war ralies here or elsewhere.


Abstract, in the two forums I participate in, you have never posted much that can be backed up. In fact, all you seem to be able to do is spout leftist rhetoric and make fun of others religions.

Now if you can furnish references to back your CLAIM i'd love to read them.
There is quite a few for you to digest for now. I am sure you wont read them, but maybe others will.
I believe Tom summed it up the best:

Now that I know how shallow your intentions are, I won't give you any more of my time nor effort. http://www.bobclark.com/bcforums/topic.asp?whichpage=7&Forum_Title=Off+Topic+Forum&Topic_Title=Truth+about+Iraq&CAT_ID=13&FORUM_ID=32&TOPIC_ID=19817

I may be a "cheerleader" or Hawkeman, but at least I can form a real opinion based on facts.


IAN

[AbstractCypher]

I'm not going through this with you again...


If anybody would like to know how I feel on the the issue or check out some of the links and information i've acquired their @ the BC forum. If not, that's o.k too.


it's all here. Arguments from both sides, pro and anti. (http://www.bobclark.com/bcforums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19817&FORUM_ID=32&CAT_ID=13&Topic_Title=Truth+about+Iraq&Forum_Title=Off+Topic+Forum)